Jay Smith, Examining the Newest Historical Research on Islam

<div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVcXztyIzHbHBhWMrlpSm9iV91V1tAQqstmi4aFgWNPaa8my-keK5_dIB6hz_Yd_HSPcxPxrtjk5z49_ECcRDGYn9-MzFg43z85pgwDT1Q1wAr6cD9gmhRO4L-e56V5C9NsPR6k3DRJ_Y/s0/jay+smith.jpg" style="display: block; padding: 0em 0px; text-align: center;"><span style="color: black;"><img alt="" border="0" data-original-height="720" data-original-width="1280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhVcXztyIzHbHBhWMrlpSm9iV91V1tAQqstmi4aFgWNPaa8my-keK5_dIB6hz_Yd_HSPcxPxrtjk5z49_ECcRDGYn9-MzFg43z85pgwDT1Q1wAr6cD9gmhRO4L-e56V5C9NsPR6k3DRJ_Y/s0/jay+smith.jpg" /></span></a></div><p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: times; font-size: medium;"><i><a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/12/03/an-answer-to-jay-smiths-examining-the-newest-historical-research-on-islam/" style="background-color: white; border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><b>Jay Smith</b>,</a><span style="background-color: white;"> Engaging Islam With Dishonesty and Hate Speech </span></i></span></p><div class="entry-content" style="background-color: white; border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"></p><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Roboto; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">We recently came across a video,</span><span style="font-family: Roboto;"><span style="font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"> </span><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJRsd8SrhU&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1QOvGfJsWBMlICn-ip9nQa_fZFno02oNxNW-9XTyMDFLowWYBEuTuRmgw" target="_blank">Examining the Newest Historical Research on Islam and the Earliest Quranic Manuscripts</a><span style="font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">.</span></span><span style="font-family: Roboto; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"> Its author is Jay Smith, a Christian apologist and a known critic of Islam.</span></div><p style="font-size: 13px;"></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">The first thing we notice before starting watching this video is: JS has turned its comments section off. This naturally gives his viewers an immediate negative impression that he is unable to face any counterargument about his presentation. </span><span style="font-family: Roboto; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">Below we quote Jay Smith’s main arguments together with our answers:</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Trirong; font-size: medium;">JS finds it weird that the earliest Muslims didn’t write down Muhammad’s life</span></span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">JS finds it odd that Muhammad’s name appeared in a ‘Dated’ Muslim record for the first time NOT earlier than about ‘60 years’ after his death, during the reign of the Umayyad Caliph ʿAbd al-Malik. He considers it as a big proof that the history of Islam, and therefore Islam itself, starts from the time of ʿAbd al-Malik. He argues that, had Muhammad as known today been a historical figure, his contemporaries would immediately write down the details of the life of their beloved prophet from the very beginning, without leaving his first biography to be compiled by Ibn Hisham after two hundred years (his predecessor Ibn Ishaq’s work was lost).</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Trirong; font-size: medium;"><b>Answer</b>:</span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;"><span style="font-size: 1.05em;">JS needs to go through, for example, the following link that effectually debunks his above claims and aptly responds to the question about </span><a href="http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/earlysaw.html." style="font-size: 1.05em;" target="_blank">the existence of historical Muhammad, independent of the Quran and Islamic traditions</a><span style="font-size: 1.05em;">.  Then the review below briefly explains why the </span><a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/earliest-dated-muslim-texts-constantly-remember-god-but-never-muhammad/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Earliest ‘Dated Muslim Texts’ constantly remember God but never Muhammad</a><span style="font-size: 1.05em;">: “Unlike Christianity, Islam is not a belief system whose religious formulae and expression are centred on the deification and glorification of a man. To put it another way, Muslims are not “Muhammadans” and Islam is not the worship of Muhammad. </span><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">This can help to explain why our earliest epigraphic records are not awash with references to Muhammad, instead containing simple pietistic invocations mentioning God. </span></span><span style="font-size: 1.05em;">Western scholars whose primary experience is of Judeo-Christian religion, history and culture often fail to appreciate this crucial difference. What these records do emphasize is the worship of one God alone without any partner, his attributes such as mercy and forgiveness are often supplicated for and are found in our earliest inscriptions. … Once the Islamic state started to change in the time of ‘Abd al-Malik (685-705 CE) following a number of battles and wars both internal and external, propaganda efforts were intensified …” (M S M Saifullah & ʿAbdullah David. © Islamic Awareness; words highlighted by the author S. I.)</span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto; font-size: medium;">He finds it weird that the earliest Muslims didn’t record Muhammad’s words (hadiths)</span></span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">JS further maintains that, had Muhammad as known today been a historical figure, Muslims would immediately write down his words (hadiths) from the very beginning (as ‘happened’ in the case of Jesus), without waiting for the first Hadith book to appear after more than two hundred years.</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto; font-size: medium;">Answer:</span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">JS fails to realize that Islam, unlike traditional Christianity or Muhammadanism, is not about the deification or glorification of a man. Obviously, it is not keen on a formal biography or personal words of Muhammad the human. From an Islamic perspective, what is important for Muslims is only the revealed words of Muhammad the messenger, i.e. the Quran. JS fails to note that the latter was written down instantaneously as an authenticated, contemporary record of the messenger’s ongoing experience during his prophetic mission. Also, regarding the question why the earlier Muslims didn’t pen Muhammad’s personal words (hadiths), JS doesn’t seem to be familiar with any of the following reasons: <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2014/09/10/the-quran-prohibited-hadiths/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The Quran prohibited hadiths</a>; <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2016/03/24/hadith-prohibited-hadith/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Hadith prohibited Hadith</a>;  <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2015/08/05/the-first-four-caliphs-prohibited-hadiths/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The first four Caliphs prohibited hadiths</a>; <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/03/06/earlier-muslims-prohibited-hadiths/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Earlier Muslims prohibited hadiths</a>; <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/03/31/common-sense-prohibits-hadith/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Common sense prohibits Hadith</a></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Trirong; font-size: medium;">Then he attempts to dismiss the Muslim belief about Islam’s place of origin</span></span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">Then JS continues arguing that the key events in the Muslim version of the earlier Islamic history, such as the origin of Islam, are not anchored in historical context. Here he largely relies on Dan Gibson’s outdated work for the claim that the original holy city of Islam was not Mecca, but the city of Petra.</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Trirong; font-size: medium;">Answer:</span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">This line of reasoning was originally started by Patricia Crone and Michael Cook, though they themselves later retracted from their hypotheses considering them as unfounded. These have been further refuted by the latest historical scholarship like Donner, Neuwirth, Schoeler, Sadeghi and Rubin. Then came Dan Gibson’s Quranic Geography (2011) with the already dismissed claim that the original holy city and birthplace of Islam is really Petra rather than Mecca. To be precise, we do not find in his arguments any real substance to reject the traditional Muslim understanding about the centrality of Mecca which is relatively consistent, based on <a href="https://understandingislam.today/is-mecca-or-petra-islams-true-birthplace/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">evidences from numerous sources</a> , including the historical works, the marks in the city of Mecca and those indicated in the Quran itself. While it is possible that Mecca used to be less important in the earlier Islamic centuries than it is today, we do not think Petra – which lay in ruins in 7<span style="border: 0px; bottom: 1ex; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 10.2375px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; height: 0px; line-height: 0; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; vertical-align: baseline;">th</span> century since it had declined fast after the Roman occupation – had <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2020/08/28/petra-has-nothing-to-do-with-the-origin-of-islam/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">anything to do</a> with the emergence of Islam. Moreover, we note that the tenets of Islam as found in the Quran are universal and therefore not bound or affected by whether any city or land or direction is accepted as original or not (Quran 2:177). For readers who are interested in or fascinated by Gibson’s Mecca vs. Petra theory but haven’t gone through his actual arguments, here is a brief review of his book: <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/12/01/a-rebuttal-to-dan-gibsons-quranic-geography/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">A review of Dan Gibson’s Mecca vs. Petra theory</a>.</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Trirong; font-size: medium;">Finally he arrives at his favourit attack on the Quran, the Manuscript Criticism</span></span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">Finally JS arrives at his favourit attack, the Manuscript Criticism. He contends that the Quranic claim about its eternality (85:22) can be easily dismissed by the discrepancies of its manuscripts. Also, according to him, the lack of a complete Quranic manuscript from the time of Uthman invalidates the Muslim belief that the Quran was compiled <em style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">complete</em> in 650 AD and that it remains unchanged since then.</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Trirong; font-size: medium;">Answer:</span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 40px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Roboto;">Apparently, JS doesn’t know the difference between the terms <a href="http://www.quranicstudies.com/quran/the-difference-between-quran-and-mushaf/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">quran and mushaf</a>. The word quran means “recitation” and originally refers to the oral recitations uttered by Prophet Muhammad over many years in a variety of situations. On the other hand, mushaf is “written pages” or manuscripts as secondary products (therefore open to possible clerical errors) of the oral recitations. The Quran is not inherently a “book”; it is “spoken word”. Also, while preserved as self-evident signs/messages (ayat) in the hearts of the knowers (29:49, 91:7-8), it never claims to be the entirety of God’s speech or words as it explicitly denies that divine words can ever be exhausted or captured by any human words or script. Thus the Quran constantly confirms that divine signs/messages (ayat), similar to its verses (ayat), are found throughout the Universe as well as human’s own self (31:27, 18:109, 45:2-6, 51:20-21). Here are a few <a href="https://ismailignosis.com/2016/09/14/10-surprising-facts-to-know-before-reading-the-quran/" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">surprising facts to know before reading the Quran</a>. <span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Now, t</span></span><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">he main instrument and undeniable evidence for the unchanged preservation of the Quran has been its collective memorisation and on-going recital.</span> </span>Initially the verses were memorised and recited by dozens and then hundreds of people in the vicinity and time of the Prophet, following their revelation. If one person were to recite even one word of a verse wrongly, there would be many around him to correct his recitation. This was how the transmission of the Quran became a collective process strictly subject to collective cross-checking – a process that spread across regions and that has continued down to our time. This sort of collective cross-checking is unique for the Quran (which is also unique as the only book that defends itself), compared to any book or compilation in the world, including Hadith and associated traditions. <span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 13.65px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: 600; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">This is further supported by reasoning, for example, like that of Fred Donner</span></span>, “In the Qur’an, on the other hand, we find not a single reference to events, personalities, groups, or issues that clearly belong to periods after the time of Muhammad – ‘Abbasids, Umayyads, Zubayrids, ‘Alids, the dispute over free will, the dispute over tax revenues and conversion, tribal rivalries, conquests, etc. This suggests that the Qur’an, as it now exists, was already a “closed” body of text by the time of the First Civil War (34-41/656-661), at the latest.” – Fred Donner (Professor of Near Eastern History – University of Chicago), (Narratives of Islamic Origins, 49). Here are <a href="https://www.islamic-awareness.org/quran/text/mss/" target="_blank">some earliest examples of the Quranic manuscripts</a></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="font-family: Roboto; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit;">Further reading</span></b><span style="font-family: Roboto; font-size: 1.05em; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">: <a href="https://callingchristians.com/2014/11/26/release-a-critical-analysis-of-jay-smiths-mistakes-about-the-quran/" target="_blank">A Critical Analysis of Jay Smith Mistakes About Al-Quran</a> </span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: border-box; color: #555555; font-style: inherit; line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.2em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: Trirong; font-size: medium;"><b><a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/author/serajmi/" target="_blank">Siraj Islam</a> | <a href="https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">Lampoislam</a></b></span></p></div>

Jay Smith, Examining the Newest Historical Research on Islam

Jay Smith ,  Engaging Islam With Dishonesty and Hate Speech  We recently came across a video,   Examining the Newest Historical Research on ...

Jay Smith, Examining the Newest Historical Research on Islam

Jay Smith ,  Engaging Islam With Dishonesty and Hate Speech  We recently came across a video,   Examining the Newest Historical Research on ...

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The True Birthplace of Islam is Not Petra But Mecca

<div style="text-align: justify;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXkJTI2n4hGJj28GgASPDduAHKLF6yjVYPvpwtd3kAGzC1RA3QXhqOGm331qBkE9NZfG8FDlRyIZZ0oAvm372eQ253CvgAuRa0l9rkoYISNV69N3404FH4iFSE-2H-wWbbI0gEIVMd4kc/s1600/petra2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 0em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="437" data-original-width="654" height="auto" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXkJTI2n4hGJj28GgASPDduAHKLF6yjVYPvpwtd3kAGzC1RA3QXhqOGm331qBkE9NZfG8FDlRyIZZ0oAvm372eQ253CvgAuRa0l9rkoYISNV69N3404FH4iFSE-2H-wWbbI0gEIVMd4kc/s640/petra2.jpg" width="800" /></a></div><br />From origin title: <b>Is Mecca or Petra Islam’s true birthplace?</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">For well over a millennium Muslims have revered Mecca as the site of their holiest shrine, the Kaaba. And until recently Western scholarship always accepted the traditional Muslim origins narrative, which says that was where Muhammad began, in Arabia. But in the late 1970s, John Wansbrough and two of his students, Patricia Crone and Michael Cook, published books arguing for a radically different approach to Islam’s origins.[1]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Among other things, these revisionists said that Mecca was not Islam’s birthplace, which they located somewhere in the Fertile Crescent. Though Crone and Cook later repudiated the theory their book advanced, Crone at least held fast to the idea that Islam originated in the Fertile Crescent, possibly in Nabatea.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>The Kaaba is now surrounded by towers, including one of the world’s tallest buildings.</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">While the trend among Western scholars of Islam is away from such radical doubt, four decades later some scholars still promote the idea that the Kaaba was not originally in Mecca.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Some of these revisionists say it was in or near Petra, while others refuse to speculate on the exact location. And this notion has begun to trickle down to others in the West, through the work of popular historian and documentary filmmaker Tom Holland, for example.[2] Since Muslims pray facing Mecca’s Kaaba multiple times a day, one thing this view would mean is that Muslims everywhere naively face the wrong direction in their most frequent act of worship.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Revisionists variously claim the following evidence supports their theory:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"></div><ul><li>The qur’anic data</li><li>Other early written evidence</li><li>The hadith’s data on Mecca</li><li>The archeological record</li><li>Al-Tabari’s historical record</li><li>Mecca’s geographic conditions</li></ul><span style="text-align: justify;">It is important to recognize that ancient history rarely offers the absolute proof of an airtight case. Instead, we must base our conclusion on the preponderance of the evidence. Besides these six lines of evidence, we must also consider how plausible it is that the early Muslim community reassigned its origins to a different city than that of its actual birthplace.</span><br /><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Most revisionists allege that Muslims made this change during Islam’s classical period for political reasons. Yet how believable is it that Islam originated not in Mecca, but in Petra or elsewhere in Nabatea?</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>The evidence</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Regarding the qur’anic evidence, the fact that the Qur’an names Mecca just once[3] may look suspicious when compared with the New Testament’s naming Jerusalem, for example, almost 180 times. However, the two scriptures are radically different books. By way of comparison, the former names only a few contemporary geographic locations and none more than a couple of times, while the latter names many towns and other geographic features multiple times. Likewise, the Qur’an names Muhammad just four times, while the New Testament uses the name Jesus well over a thousand times. Thus, the important point with reference to the Qur’an’s naming of Mecca is that it names it in relation to its own story,[4] whereas Petra (al-Raqim) is mentioned only in relation to a past event.[5]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>Roses grown in Ta’if, near Mecca.</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Some scholars think the Qur’an’s other data point to Islam’s having originated in Nabatea. For example, a literal reading of Q 37:137 locates Muhammad’s audience beside Sodom’s Nabatean ruins. A freer reading allows for the traditional interpretation, which puts the ruins beside the Arabs’ caravan route to Syria. Q 80:24-32 and other Meccan passages speak of God’s provision of fruit and anʿām—sometimes translated “cattle”—which Mecca’s climate would not have allowed. But anʿām can also be translated “beasts,” which includes camels. This would make the verse’s provisions “for you and your beasts” relevant to traders and camel herders alike. Q 6:136-139 implies that Muhammad’s opponents were themselves agriculturalists. But such passages may well detail practices of residents of pagan Ta’if, just 87 kilometers (54 miles) from Mecca. In fact, most of the Qur’an’s agricultural references require a locale no further afield than Ta’if, famous for its grapes, pomegranates, figs, etc. Only olives would require the growing conditions found in Yemen and Nabatea-Palestine, at the two ends of western Arabia’s overland trade route. Thus, almost everything in the Qur’an’s early suras is compatible with its Hijazi origins. There is also no reason to reject the traditional Muslim view that these texts speak universally (possibly after the pattern of the biblical psalms[6]).</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Revisionists must reckon with two other facts which argue against Islam’s Nabatean origins:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"></div><ul><li>The presence of 200 Amharic and Ethiopic loanwords in the Qur’an[7]</li><li>Qur’anic references to the pagans’ practices of idol worship and animal sacrifice</li></ul><span style="text-align: justify;">Significant linguistic borrowing suggests extensive cross-cultural interaction. When goods and ideas are exchanged, words often are as well. Cultural dominance may play into linguistic borrowing also, and Ethiopia ruled the Hijaz for a time during the 6th century. If the Qur’an’s early suras were addressed to the inhabitants of Petra, one might expect more Coptic than Amharic and Ethiopic loanwords since Nabatea was much closer culturally to Egypt than to Ethiopia. Yet Amharic and Ethiopic words in the Qur’an stand in a 20:1 ratio to Coptic words.[8] While this simple numerical comparison is not conclusive, it certainly raises questions.</span><br /><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Regarding pagan practices, the Byzantines had forbidden both idol worship and animal sacrifice long before Muhammad’s time—including in their province of Arabia Petraea.[9] Yet the Qur’an repeatedly refers to idolatry as a contemporary practice, calling the unbelievers to forsake their idols, which they look to for protection (e.g., Q 2:256-57, 16:36). </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">G.R. Hawting has argued that Muhammad challenged only the “spiritual idolatry” of retrograde monotheists.[10] But in its listing of proscribed foods, Q 5:3 says, “Forbidden to you are carrion, blood, pork…  whatever has been sacrificed to idols.” This was clearly pagan idolatry, which points to a region like Arabia’s Hijaz, beyond the bounds of the Byzantine Empire. Q 22:30 also warns against contamination by “the filth of idols” (awathan). The Qur’an also condemns “sacrificial stones” and the meat sacrificed on them (Q 5:3, 5:90). But since sacrifice had long ceased to be part of Jewish practice and was never practiced by Christians, this can only relate to idolatrous practice. The Qur’an repeatedly bans “that on which any name other than God has been invoked” (e.g., Q 2:173, 5:3). Likewise, Abraham is repeatedly presented as the prophetic hero who challenged his people’s idolatry (e.g., Q 26:69-102) as Muhammad is now doing.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The fact that the idolaters the Qur’an addresses believe that God (Allah) created the heavens and earth is consonant with what we know of widespread polytheistic belief in a High God.[11] Q 6:136 even describes the pagans as offering some portion of their produce to God, while other passages present them as ascribing offspring to God, swearing by God and even praying to God when in distress (e.g., 6:63-64, 6:109, 16:57). But not only is this qur’anic picture of pre-Islamic paganism consonant with polytheistic belief in a High God. It is also generally consistent with both pre-Islamic poetry and the Book of Idols. And epigraphic evidence from both Palmyra and South Arabia attests to the pre-Islamic Arabs’ ascription of daughters to God. To sum up, the Qur’an condemns not adulterated monotheism, but rather literal idolatrous polytheism, something that had by the early seventh century been long forbidden in Byzantine Nabatea.[12]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Thus, the Qur’an’s mention of Mecca, its Ethiopic loanwords, and its references to idolatrous practice all make the Hijaz a location more likely for Islam’s emergence than Nabatea.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>The qibla of the ancient Mosque of the Prophet in Medina faces Mecca’s Kaaba, not Petra</b><br /><b><br /></b></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>Second,</b> some scholars believe the lateness of the earliest written extra-qur’anic evidence for Mecca renders it unreliable. Since revisionists reject the idea that Ptolemy included Mecca, as “Makoraba,” on his second century CE map of Arabia, they conclude that the first map documenting Mecca’s existence is late also. Regarding textual evidence, only a small percentage survives from any ancient culture. And unlike the Mediterranean world at the time of Christ, Arab culture was oral during Islam’s first two centuries, producing little written Arabic before the ninth century, beyond inscriptions and graffiti, business and administrative records, and the Qur’an. The earliest mention of Mecca comes from the late seventh century, with most of the early record being from the late eighth century or later. However, wishing we had earlier evidence does not license us to discount the evidence we do have. And all the earliest written accounts of Islam’s origins point to Mecca, none to Petra or Nabatea.[13]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Except in the oases that dot the region, the barren Hijazi landscape permits no agriculture beyond animal husbandry.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>Third,</b> we should take hadith descriptions of Mecca’s grandeur and lush vegetation as hyperbole designed to glorify Mecca, like the Qur’an’s designation of its home base as the “Mother of Settlements” (Q 6:92, 42:5). Crone is doubtless right to argue that western Arabia’s economy was unable to support the populations mentioned in the hadith.[14] Neither was Mecca on a major trade route. But again, we should not allow the Qur’an’s hyperbolic designation or the hadith’s hyperbolic elaborations to mislead us into looking for a large city at the nexus of a trade empire.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Hadith sources consistently disagree when hyperbolizing. It is where they consistently agree that we should pay attention. And they invariably make Mecca Islam’s birthplace.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>Fourth</b>, revisionists make two claims about the archeological record. The first relates to the fact that we have no archeological evidence that Mecca was inhabited in the seventh century. Due to the Saudi Arabian government’s mortal dread of shirk, or polytheism, it has strictly forbidden all archeological study of Mecca’s historic sites, lest it lead to relic worship. Indeed, the Saudis seem determined virtually to obliterate the city’s archeological record in their rush to ring the Kaaba with skyscrapers. An estimated 95% of Mecca’s historic buildings have been demolished to allow for this building spree. Any remaining historic sites are treated with a combination of fear, contempt and scholarly avoidance, lest they be idolized.[15]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Unfortunately, this leaves us with no archeological evidence either for or against Mecca’s being Islam’s birthplace.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>Jerusalem’s ancient Mosque of Omar Ibn al-Khattab faced Mecca, by the standards of the day.</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br />The other archeological claim some revisionists make relates to early mosque orientation. Following Crone, writer and documentary filmmaker Dan Gibson claims close agreement in the qibla, or prayer direction, of most of Islam’s early mosques—but to Petra, not Mecca.[16] Some enthusiasts of Gibson’s view claim that the reliability of his assertions is easily demonstrated simply by using the satellite imagery of early mosques accessible through Google Earth. But any confirmation this tool yields is unreliable due to the fact that many early mosques have multiple foundations, representing various qibla orientations.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The level of qibla agreement Gibson claims to have found is also impossible for a number of reasons. To begin, their builders used conflicting methods to determine the qibla, just as American Muslims do today.[17] Reflecting these conflicting methods, the mosques they built do not agree, though all their builders did their best to orient them to Mecca. In addition, the early Muslims had a very basic understanding of geography. As Islamic science historian David A. King explains, “The first generations of Muslims had no means whatsoever for finding the direction of Petra [or Mecca either] accurately to within a degree or two, not least because they had no access to any geographical coordinates, let alone modern ones, and no mathematics whatsoever.” The early Muslims determined the qibla accurately by the standards of the day, using the best folklore-based methods at their disposal.[18]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">However, with only primitive astronomy and maps and no mathematics, they were unable to achieve anything close to modern-day accuracy.[19] Thus, while the early Muslims oriented their mosques toward Mecca, their limited abilities and conflicting methodologies makes this far from self-evident.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>Fifth</b>, Gibson, reading between the lines, suggests that al-Tabari’s account of Ibn al-Zubayr’s trip to Mecca in 70 AH (689-90 CE) may point to the Muslim community’s relocation from Petra to Mecca.[20] Tabari says Ibn al-Zubayr took “many horses and camels and much baggage” with him to Mecca. But had the rebel Ibn al-Zubayr’s trip represented a communal move and a relocation of the Black Stone to Mecca, why would his enemies not have reversed it upon his defeat? As for the horses mentioned, he would have needed them to mount the defense of his chosen refuge. Ibn al-Zubayr needed the money since transferring power from Damascus involved outfitting and rewarding his supporters, and money was bulky in those days. Tabari also says that many camels were slaughtered on his arrival in Mecca—doubtless to celebrate his victory, fleeting though it was. There is nothing to suggest that this points to the Muslim community’s relocation of Islam’s holiest shrine.[21] And while Tabari never mentions Petra, he elsewhere repeatedly names Mecca as home of the Kaaba.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Unlike the pagan Arabs before them, Muslims do not worship the Black Stone, but they do highly revere it.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>Sixth</b>, some believe Mecca’s harsh conditions and geographic isolation make it a wretched choice for the spiritual center of the world.[22] But however ambitious Muhammad was, it seems likely that he initially hoped to make his hometown simply the center of his Arabian theocracy. When he first began, he could not have known how much of the globe his armies would subdue.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>The question of plausibility</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The last issue for us to consider in assessing the theory that Petra or some other city in the Fertile Crescent is Islam’s real birthplace is that of the plausibility. That is, how plausible is the move the theory necessitates from Islam’s alleged birthplace to Mecca?</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Specifically, how could the Muslim community have seamlessly made and accepted the move from Islam’s “real birthplace” to Mecca, its “pseudo-birthplace,” without leaving any trace of that move in the written record?</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Of the proposed answers to this question, two call for our consideration. Gibson puts forward a highly implausible hypothesis that Muslims formerly called Petra “Mecca,” a hypothesis endorsed by Christian apologist Jay Smith. This would mean there were two Meccas, the first being Petra, the second being the Kaaba’s current home in Saudi Arabia. Thus, the hadith accurately describe the Nabatean Mecca before the Muslim community gave the Kaaba’s new Hijazi home the same name. Gibson bases his notion that “Mecca” referred to Petra on the testimony of a 9th-10th century Christian historian named Thomas Artsruni. He wrote that Muhammad had preached in Mecca, located in “Arabia Petraea Paran.” According to Gibson, Thomas locates Mecca in Petra, “in southern Jordan.”[23]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>According to the hadith, Muhammad received his first revelations in the Cave of Hira, outside of Mecca.</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">However, Thomas locates Mecca, not in the city of Petra at all, but only in the Byzantine province of Arabia Petraea, specifically in its Paran, or Sinai, region. Two things explain Thomas’s mistake. First, he wrote in distant Armenia of places he had never seen. Second, he undoubtedly placed Mecca in Paran because Muslims claim that Mecca was the site of Hagar and Ishmael’s exile, an event Genesis 21:22 locates in Paran. In other words, Thomas mistakenly assumed that Mecca must be in Paran since the author of Genesis set Hagar and Ishmael’s story there.[24] Thus, we should overlook Thomas’s error, not build on it.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The other explanation for the hadith’s total silence on the topic of the Muslim community’s alleged move of its central shrine is that the early Muslims determined to cover their tracks. They allegedly did not want move of the qibla known, lest it diminish Mecca’s sanctity and legitimacy. But the import of such a move and the realities of the period in which the alleged move was made are incompatible with the hadith’s complete failure to mention it:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">We know that the Muslim community was widely distributed within a few years of 632 CE, when Muhammad is said to have died.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The community was so deeply divided from that point on that Sunni, Shia, Khariji and other Muslim groups fought violently to gain or hold onto power.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The alleged change of qibla would have been a matter of paramount importance since Muslims have always worshipped in a single prescribed direction.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The hadith reflect the early Muslim community’s regional, sectarian and other divisions and disagreements in numerous respects.[25]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Yet, despite the community’s broad geographic distribution and deep division and the central importance of the qibla, the hadith register no disagreement whatsoever on this point. To think that so sprawling and so unruly a community could have unanimously agreed to relocate its sacred center or that it somehow managed to do so without leaving a single trace of the move in the hadith record is highly implausible to say the least.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">To sum up, since ancient history seldom offers the sort of proof that enables us to build an airtight case, we must simply decide which conclusion most of the best evidence supports. As I have shown here, none of the six lines of evidence revisionists use to support their view is compelling. Instead, the preponderance of the evidence points to Mecca as Islam’s true birthplace. That is especially true when we allow that oral history—like that later recorded in the hadith—is not inherently false and consider the implausibility of the alleged relocation of the Kaaba.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Hence, contrary to what most revisionists claim, we can affirm with reasonable confidence that Muslims do not mistakenly face the wrong direction when they pray.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">FOOTNOTES</div><div style="text-align: justify;">[1] Patricia Crone and Michael Cook, Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1977) 23-24, John Wansbrough, Qur’anic Studies: Sources and Methods of Scriptural Interpretation (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1977). Other Western scholars had previously questioned the hadith basis of the traditional origins story, but Wansbrough, Cook and Crone can be credited with beginning Islamic revisionism as a school of thought.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[2] Tom Holland, In the Shadow of the Sword: The Birth of Islam and the Rise of the Global Arab Empire (New York: Doubleday, 2012) and the film Islam: The Untold Story.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[3] It also names Becca—said to be an alias for Mecca—as the site of Abraham’s sacred house, the Kaaba.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[4] Though the Qur’an never tells its story in any detailed chronological fashion, it frequently alludes to events and infrequently names places in it also. The fact that Mecca is one of the few places named in that context is highly significant.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[5] Mehdy Shaddel argues convincingly that “al-Raqim” in Q 18:9 is actually the Arabic name for Petra, “Studia Onomastica Coranica: al-Raqīm, Caput Nabataeae” in Journal of Semitic Studies 42: 303-18.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[6] Angelika Neuwirth, “Qur’anic Reading of the Psalms,” in The Qur’an in Context: Historical and Literary Investigations into the Qur’anic Milieu, ed. Angelika Neuwirth, Nicolai Sinai and Michael Marx (Leiden: Brill, 2010) 733-78.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[7] Arthur Jeffery, The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur’an (Baroda: Oriental Institute, 1938).</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[8] Aramaic and Syriac, on the other hand, exerted a major influence on the entire region, even far-off Yemen.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[9] Nicolai Sinai, The Qur’an: A historical-critical introduction (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2017) 61.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[10] G.R. Hawting, The Idea of Idolatry and the Emergence of Islam: From Polemic to History (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1999).</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[11] It is tempting to read passages like Q 27:91, 28:57, 29:67 and 106:3 as supporting the idea that Mecca’s pagans considered God (Allah) the Lord of the Kaaba or of Mecca. But that inference is faulty for the speaker in each case is the qur’anic speaker, never his pagan hearers. It is more likely that the pagans considered Hubal the Lord of the Kaaba, as the Book of Idols attests.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[12] Nicolai Sinai, The Qur’an: A historical-critical introduction (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 2017) 66-72.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[13] See pp. 9-10 below for my treatment of the 9th-10th century testimony of Thomas Artsruni.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[14] Crone, Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam (Piscataway, NJ: Gorgias Press, 2004).</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[15] One example of this fear and contempt is that the house of Khadijah, Muhammad’s first wife, has been turned into a block of toilets. Likewise, while radical clerics have repeatedly called for the demolition of the house in which Muhammad was born, the Saudis have used it as a cattle market for many years. Ziauddin Sardar, Mecca: The Sacred City (New York: Bloomsbury, 2014) 346-47.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[16] Gibson claims the exceptions face halfway between Petra and Mecca. Dan Gibson, The Sacred City: Discovering the Real Birthplace of Islam (Glasshouse Media, 2017); also Qur’anic Geography (Surrey, BC: Independent Scholars Press, 2011). Missing in both Gibson’s book and film is precise archeological evidence for each of the mosques studied. And no amount of cinematic wizardry can make up for this lack.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[17] Many American mosques face southeast, based on Mecca’s direction on a flat map, while others face northeast, based on the shortest distance around the globe.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[18] <a href="http://www.muslimheritage.com/article/from-petra-back-to-makka">http://www.muslimheritage.com/article/from-petra-back-to-makka</a>   Accessed July 8, 2018. King has written numerous books and articles on early qibla determination.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[19] Hence, the only explanation for any early mosques accurately oriented toward either Petra or Mecca—if, indeed, any exist—is coincidence.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[20] Gibson, The Sacred City.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[21]<a href="https://archive.org/stream/TabariEnglish/Tabari_Volume_21#page/n9/mode/2up" target="_blank"> https://archive.org/stream/TabariEnglish/Tabari_Volume_21#page/n9/mode/2up</a><br />Accessed July 8, 2018.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[22] Most revisionists hypothesize that the early Muslims relocated Islam’s center to Mecca for its remoteness, in order to make the Kaaba (with its vital Black Stone) immune to political intrigue. But it is not hard to imagine every rebel spiriting the stone off and rebuilding its shrine in his preferred location. That did not happen in all the centuries since the stone was allegedly moved to Mecca because it is precisely Mecca’s Muhammadan history that sanctifies it to Muslims.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[23] Gibson, “Petra in the Qur’an,” 14.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><a href="http://thesacredcity.ca/Petra%20In%20The%20Qur%27an.pdf" target="_blank">http://thesacredcity.ca/Petra%20In%20The%20Qur%27an.pdf </a>  Accessed September 14, 2018.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[24] Gibson’s presupposition that the original Kaaba was in Petra led him to see Thomas as explaining why Muslim accounts always named Mecca, never Petra, as Islam’s birthplace—or as he sees it, “why Petra is continually referred to as Mecca in the Islamic accounts”; Gibson, “Petra in the Qur’an,” 14. But even supposing that Muslims used the name Mecca for Petra before relocating the Black Stone to the Hijazi Mecca, this does not explain why they never again referred to Petra as Mecca (or “Old Mecca”) after that historic move.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[25] Even if every Muslim alive at the time of the alleged move vowed to keep it secret, how likely is it that the next generation of Muslims would not have leaked multiple versions of the story into the hadith?</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[By <a href="https://understandingislam.today/is-mecca-or-petra-islams-true-birthplace/" target="_blank">Mark Anderson</a> | <a href="https://understandingislam.today/" target="_blank">Understanding Islam</a>]</div>

The True Birthplace of Islam is Not Petra But Mecca

From origin title: Is Mecca or Petra Islam’s true birthplace? For well over a millennium Muslims have revered Mecca as the site of their hol...

The True Birthplace of Islam is Not Petra But Mecca

From origin title: Is Mecca or Petra Islam’s true birthplace? For well over a millennium Muslims have revered Mecca as the site of their hol...

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The Armour of King David

<div style="text-align: justify;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQCHYNNzRktfq_21RAflVUHrz7sFV6bV5s7v2tZpBtpt2k-6w3-l4o4pFrKUIifufFfEPIVP8Q1TfSLa4MoKwt2HzxygTnSk1zbQGiCFMaylIsn65lpxnPSpu23lbx2AvZ6nfv-EnkkiQ/s1600/baju+besi+nabi+daud+2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 0em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="551" data-original-width="900" height="auto" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgQCHYNNzRktfq_21RAflVUHrz7sFV6bV5s7v2tZpBtpt2k-6w3-l4o4pFrKUIifufFfEPIVP8Q1TfSLa4MoKwt2HzxygTnSk1zbQGiCFMaylIsn65lpxnPSpu23lbx2AvZ6nfv-EnkkiQ/s640/baju+besi+nabi+daud+2.jpg" width="800" /></a></div><br />This is not a rebuttal but simply a light respons to a stupid question from an old dude who keeps on repeating same silly questions about many verses of Al-Quran since 7-8 years ago untill today.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><blockquote class="tr_bq"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif; font-size: 18px;">One of the question is, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_%28armour%29#History" target="_blank">Wikipedia tells that body armor, or mail armour, was found in 3 BCE</a>. How come QS. 34:11 tells that Prophet Dawud Pbuh (King David) who live in 10 BCE already wore a body armour? This must have been a terrible mistake!</span></blockquote><br />To see whether it is a terrible mistake or not, let us check first <b>1Samuel 18:4</b> in The Bible. It's written in Hebrew as follows:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: right;"><span style="font-size: large;">וַיִּתְפַּשֵּׁ֣ט יְהֹונָתָ֗ן אֶֽת־הַמְּעִיל֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר עָלָ֔יו וַֽיִּתְּנֵ֖הוּ לְדָוִ֑ד וּמַדָּ֕יו וְעַד־חַרְבֹּ֥ו וְעַד־קַשְׁתֹּ֖ו וְעַד־חֲגֹרֹֽו׃  </span> </div><br /><div style="text-align: right;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">And Parallel Verses of 1Samuel 18:4 translate it to:</span></div><br /><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>NEW AMERICAN STANDAR BIBLE</b> </div><div style="text-align: justify;">Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, with <b><span style="color: #990000;">his armor</span></b>, including his sword and his bow and his belt.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>KING JAMES BIBLE</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>HOLMAN CHRISTIAN STANDARD BIBLE</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Then Jonathan removed the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with <b><span style="color: #990000;">his military tunic</span></b>, his sword, his bow, and his belt. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>INTERNATIONAL STANDARD VERSION</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Jonathan took off the robe that he had on and gave it to David, along with his coat, his sword, his bow, and his belt. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>NET BIBLE</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with the rest of <b><span style="color: #990000;">his gear</span></b>, including his sword, his bow, and even his belt. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>GOD'S WORD® Translation</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Jonathan took off the coat he had on and gave it to David along with <b><span style="color: #990000;">his battle tunic</span></b>, his sword, his bow, and his belt.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>KING JAMES 2000 BIBLE</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And Jonathan removed the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his belt.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">As for the dude's stupid curriousity, now let us take a good look at how a<b> <span style="color: #990000;">battle tunic</span></b>,<b> <span style="color: #990000;">military tunic</span></b>,<b> <span style="color: #990000;">armour</span></b>,<b> </b>or<b> <span style="color: #990000;">body armor</span> </b>actually looks <b>in 1000-400 BCE</b>, the era between Bronze age and Iron age.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWLFj-fy5SGuCLC2vO1pPUL1ag54NT8-WEoytk6Sw4TPylBYz3RLDEpbwwC0Wjo-NNnHMLp3M1Qb-fyWNW_hllwy5a5q_AZCm6xNieOQD1u4XwXaRoFxlYAOZa87K_9AY-28_HeEGFgJc/s1600/body+armor.jpeg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; padding-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="272" data-original-width="375" height="232" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWLFj-fy5SGuCLC2vO1pPUL1ag54NT8-WEoytk6Sw4TPylBYz3RLDEpbwwC0Wjo-NNnHMLp3M1Qb-fyWNW_hllwy5a5q_AZCm6xNieOQD1u4XwXaRoFxlYAOZa87K_9AY-28_HeEGFgJc/s320/body+armor.jpeg" width="320" /></a></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>During the bronze age, armors had been tried to be made</b>, but they were ineffective at providing protection, which was why they used clothe since it was lighter and it provided about the same protection. <b>The Iron Age body armor was completely different from the Bronze Age amor</b>. It provided a great about of protection since it was perfected. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">In the picture to the left, there is a body armor during this time. The green color shows that there was bronze in this armor. They used a combination of iron and bronze because soldiers liked like armor, <b>so they combined iron and bronze to make a armor that can protect the soldier and that was light enough for the soldiers to move quickly</b>. The armor was a huge change because the bronze weapons were not strong enough to pierce the armor, and it changed how soldiers fought. The weapons also had a significant change. Much like the change from stone weapons to bronze weapons, iron weapons were more durable and stronger than the bronze weapons when Iron age II began.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Back to <b>1Samuel 18:4</b>, most likely this is the kind of body armor  that Jonathan gave to David <b>who on the later dates developed it into a much more stronger and lighter</b> as mentioned in QS. 34:11.<br /><br /><b><span style="font-size: large;">The bottom line is, body armor already existed in King David's time! </span></b></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">So, <b>shame on you</b> dude! </div><div style="text-align: justify;">Apparently your Bible also tells a story that matched with the fact being told in Al-Quran concerning King David's armour, doesn't it?</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Sources: </div><div style="text-align: justify;">1. <a href="http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_samuel/18-4.htm" target="_blank">Biblehub.com</a></div><div style="text-align: justify;">2. <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/michaelmiltichtimeline/home/the-beginnings-of-human-society-4000-b-c-e/4000-1000-b-c-e/1000-500-b-c-e" target="_blank">Michael Miltih Time Line</a> </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div>

The Armour of King David

This is not a rebuttal but simply a light respons to a stupid question from an old dude who keeps on repeating same silly questions about ma...

The Armour of King David

This is not a rebuttal but simply a light respons to a stupid question from an old dude who keeps on repeating same silly questions about ma...

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The Lost Book Of The Bible

<br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYhoUGSr2ZmKIqu6svOYoyto7iwCQRNLvN3HxgNhYqhrTjxx8w7nvBaprS4vMCRj2mh8P3-_H_twL4KhPtT_xEGyeoDgY3ZgUBPCPioDPtdEt2tlYZpcjeArG5AMELq-CP8sOxk8Zw7mNd/s1600/maxresdefault.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 0em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="720" data-original-width="1280" height="auto" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhYhoUGSr2ZmKIqu6svOYoyto7iwCQRNLvN3HxgNhYqhrTjxx8w7nvBaprS4vMCRj2mh8P3-_H_twL4KhPtT_xEGyeoDgY3ZgUBPCPioDPtdEt2tlYZpcjeArG5AMELq-CP8sOxk8Zw7mNd/s640/maxresdefault.jpg" width="740" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="_5k3v _5k3w clearfix" style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; margin-top: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; zoom: 1;"><ul style="list-style-type: square; margin: 10px 0px; padding: 0px 10px 0px 25px;"><li style="text-align: justify;"><em><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">Hell is only mankinds grave. The bible even says that Jesus went to Hell. Bet you didn't know that.</span></em></li></ul><ul style="list-style-type: square; margin: 10px 0px; padding: 0px 10px 0px 25px;"><li style="text-align: justify;"><em><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">Quote the verse, please.</span></em></li></ul><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">Now I realize what his post to me with a verse from acts without any context was about. He couldn't even come up with a verse to suport his assertation with as his acts 2:31 or whatever only says Jesus didn't just die.</div><ul style="list-style-type: square; margin: 10px 0px; padding: 0px 10px 0px 25px;"><li style="text-align: justify;"><em><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">I do not recall any Bible verse stating Jesus went to Hell, but it is part of the Christian mythology of Jesus. It is said that he went to Hell for three days (just like most of the sons of god before him) to "plead for the lost souls." I think Jesus's trip through Hell is in one of the Apocrypha.</span></em></li></ul><ul style="list-style-type: square; margin: 10px 0px; padding: 0px 10px 0px 25px;"><li style="text-align: justify;"><em><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">Oh, it's in the bible all right, but it's a typo! See below from a previous post of mine.</span></em></li></ul><div style="text-align: justify;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjKr1kPWMRR7PTYtSWM-09uTaSFbasqZjJTmjtXEuBhm1QDqs0RQHxwZZJUMIEvvNvcPAbp7JHYSxdsV3ZBQ_jmOYHfJz3gacD2vADTfOH5xGfOEqWHlz7PvTDbPH4itHSJfVB0-_ROUbPk/s1600/51KTqzSxN3L.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 0em; margin-right: 1em; padding-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjKr1kPWMRR7PTYtSWM-09uTaSFbasqZjJTmjtXEuBhm1QDqs0RQHxwZZJUMIEvvNvcPAbp7JHYSxdsV3ZBQ_jmOYHfJz3gacD2vADTfOH5xGfOEqWHlz7PvTDbPH4itHSJfVB0-_ROUbPk/s1600/51KTqzSxN3L.jpg" width="250" /></a><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif;">I just finished reading </span><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;"><strong>The Lost Years of Jesus Revealed </strong>and <strong>Did Jesus Write This Book</strong></span><span style="font-family: "helvetica neue" , "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif;">, both by Charles Francis Potter. He proposes that the Books of Enoch and similar writings were "lost" on purpose because they document the evolutionary development of theology later grafted onto Jesus. In particular he points to Enoch as the source for the beatitudes and "but I say" and ethical teachings of Jesus. As evidence he cites the exclusion of the books of the Psalms of Solomon, Epistle of Barnabas, and Shepherd of Hermas. These are found in various of the oldest existing manuscripts and attested to by early church fathers.</span></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">Barnabas, for example, is included in the Codex Sinaiticus, Clement of Alexandria quotes it as scripture and Origen terms it a "Catholic Episle." Barnabas 16:5 quotes Enoch 89:55, 66, 67 and Barnabas chapter 4 reads "as Enoch says". Enoch was recogonized as scripture in the first century by the current new testament book of Jude, in the second century by Barnabas and Athenagoras, and in the third century by Clement of Alexandria, by Irenaeus, and Tertullian. After Hilary, Jerome and Augustine it was "lost".</div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">On page 95 of The Lost Years of J Revealed, Potter shows that the phrase "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." was added to Acts 8:37 because it isn't in fourth century Codexes Vaticanus and Sinaiticus nor the fifth century Codexes Alexandrinus and Ephraemi. It's still in the King James Version but has been removed from the Revised, American Standard Revised, and the new Revised Standard Version. In a strange twist of fate, he notes that the ethiopian eunuch falsely attributed as saying this, may in fact have been the source of the book of Enoch transported to europe where it escaped destruction and a copy was discovered late in the 19th century.</div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">On the next several pages, Potter shows that the "he" refered to in 1 Peter 3:18-20 that "went and preached to the spirits in prison", the source of the credial phrase about descending into hell, is not Jesus but in fact originally refered to Enoch! He lists several Greek specialists that support this translation: Bowyer, Spitta, Cramer, Rendel Harris, M.R. James, Moffattt and Goodspeed. In Enoch chapters 6 to sixteen, Enoch not only preached to these spirits but the circumstances of their imprisonment are explained.</div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">This story became a point of contention between Augustine and Tertullian. Guess who became the heretic and who the saint and which believed what? Fundi scholars attribute this little change to a scribal error known as "haplography", or writing only one of two identical groups of letters occuring near together. Another accident like "losing" all the copies of Enoch, no doubt. BTW, these "spirits" were the fallen angels of Genesis 6:1-4, Isaiah 14:12 and 24:21-23. Paul was apparently aware of this and still afraid of them when he gives the reason why women should cover their heads in church in 1 Cor 11:10, "because of the angels."</div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">Further evidence of the evolution of biblical theology can be found in Luke 3:22 which in the "Gospel of the Ebionites", several ancient manuscripts, quotations by Justin, Clement, Origen, and even Augustine describes the descent of the Holy Spirit as Jesus baptism thus, "Thou are my Son, today I have begotten thee." This clear text is the basis for Adoptianism, or the belief that Jesus was only a human till god endowed (or adopted) him with divine nature. This belief can be traced back through Arius, Lucian, Paul of Samosata, to Theodotus of Byzantium and Artemon in Rome about 185 and before that to the Ebionites of the first and second centuries, the survivors of Qumran and Jerusalem in 70.</div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">The Ebionites are also the ones that first call Paul a liar! What does the present day bible say at Luke 3:22? The "today" has been removed to match the eternal divinity dogma and all the Adoptionists are declaired heretics even by Augustine who knew what the bible originally said!</div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; text-align: justify;">[From Larry Sites to David Rice: JESUS IN HELL]</div></div>

The Lost Book Of The Bible

Hell is only mankinds grave. The bible even says that Jesus went to Hell. Bet you didn't know that. Quote the verse, please. Now I reali...

The Lost Book Of The Bible

Hell is only mankinds grave. The bible even says that Jesus went to Hell. Bet you didn't know that. Quote the verse, please. Now I reali...

Read more »

What Does Quran Mean By Seven Earth?

<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi9M5ygnmpt8v2bd_LjZTgs6DQmU_mDrT7KV2qFDTCXDI3kqowXKqxUCqvQSn_oyHFQKIbd2n-ke64wp_6B3zLs40fs0lWoE6t6cNxROZ8sR25jZxaJ7B63-Ujrl3A8RoBNTQHbw6goplI_/s1600/kiamat.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 0em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="450" data-original-width="800" height="auto" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi9M5ygnmpt8v2bd_LjZTgs6DQmU_mDrT7KV2qFDTCXDI3kqowXKqxUCqvQSn_oyHFQKIbd2n-ke64wp_6B3zLs40fs0lWoE6t6cNxROZ8sR25jZxaJ7B63-Ujrl3A8RoBNTQHbw6goplI_/s640/kiamat.jpg" width="740" /></a></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b><br /></b></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>THE CASE</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">''It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.'' (QS. 65:12)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">In the above verse Allah says He has created seven Heavens and earth of the same number. How is it possible? In some other verses Allah says that Planets and Stars are confined within the domain of the First heaven. Moreover does it imply that Earth is flat and there are 6 more earths under this Earth? Does it also mean that Earth is not a planet? Some say it's directing to the seven layers of earth for example lithosphere, mesosphere etc,  but there not specifically seven layers. There are less than that. It confusing.  Some are using this to say that according to Quran Earth is Flat.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><b>THE ANSWER</b></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Let's see!<br /><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">As to Noble Verse 65:12, Allah Almighty didn't say the same number.  He Said a "similar" number (Google Translation):</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[065:012]  God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number ومن الارض مثلهن. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that God has power over all things, and that God comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><div style="text-align: right;"><b><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></b></div></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><div style="text-align: right;"><b><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: large;">‏</span><span style="color: #3d85c6;">65:12</span><span style="font-size: large;"> الله الذي خلق سبع سموات ومن الارض مثلهن يتنزل الامر بينهن لتعلموا ان الله على كل شئ قدير وان الله قد احاط بكل شئ علما </span></span></b></div></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Each Heaven has so many Earths in it.  But it is quite clear from this Noble Verse that the number of earths are not exactly the same.  Now the proof that Allah Almighty didn't say that each Heaven has ONE EARTH is the fact that the Almighty used the Word مثلهن (similar to; like).  If each Heaven had only one earth, then all of their numbers would be exact.  But the fact that Allah Almighty Said مثلهن proves that:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">1.  There are more than one earth.</div><div style="text-align: justify;">2.  The number of earths in each Heaven vary.</div><div style="text-align: justify;">3.  The number of earths between in all Heavens are similar to each others.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Not only that, but it is also worth noting that the properties of earth are in harmony with the number 7.  For example, see  our little  note <a href="http://gmdkk.blogspot.co.id/2012/10/al-qur-tentang-tujuh-lapis-bumi.html" target="_blank">here</a>  and <a href="http://gmdkk.blogspot.co.id/2012/11/al-qur-tentang-tujuh-lapis-langit.html" target="_blank">here</a> as well; </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">In addition to 7 layers of skies and earths, we also noticed that therea are 7 "official" continents in our world namely: </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">1. North America</div><div style="text-align: justify;">2. South America</div><div style="text-align: justify;">3. Australia</div><div style="text-align: justify;">4. Asia</div><div style="text-align: justify;">5. Africa</div><div style="text-align: justify;">6. Antarctica</div><div style="text-align: justify;">7. Europe</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">So the earths that exist out there should be similar to the one that we are living in; at least for the mankinds that are like us. You may refer this to any information ragrding UFO, for instance.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"> The Angels were concerned about creating humans on earth</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Another proof that there are other earths are the following Noble Verses:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills."  (QS. 42: 29)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">"Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: 'I will create a vicegerent on Earth.' They said: 'Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?' He said: 'I know what ye know not."  (QS. 2: 30)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Certainly here the Angels had a previous "bad experience" with mankind before even Adam was created.  So Adam, peace be upon him, was not the first human. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">This proves that:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">1.  Either previous humans existed before us here on earth.</div><div style="text-align: justify;">2.  Or previous and current humans exist elsewhere outside earth.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">But let it be just like it as Allah Almighty always Knows Best.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">So, this verse ...</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">''It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.'' (QS. 65:12)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Means, there are 7 Earths that are similar to our Earth. Read carefully; 7 heavens AND OF THE EARTH, THE LIKE OF THEM.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">That means the 7 planets, that are beneath Earth, being MARS, JUPITER, SATURN, URANUS, NEPTUNE , PLUTO,  SAQAR (NIBIRU).  Nibiru is called Saqar (Saqar is another name for Hell Fire)in the Quran, and scientists only discovered Nibiru as they call it, quite some years ago</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">As for MARS and MERCURY they are not classed as Earths, because they are too close to the Sun.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The correct tafsir is that of the 7 planets being the 7 Earths besides our own Earth. The verse about Abraham trying to find Allah, and he watches the stars, till he decides he can not worship them is a clue as to the QS. 65:12 verse above.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Now let us check NIBIRU for further information .</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">Nibiru as shown in the Noble Quran</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"></div><ul><li>And what will make thee know what that is?  (QS. 101:10)</li><li>A burning Fire  (QS. 101:11)</li><li>By no means! Surely it is a flaming Fire  (QS. 70:15)</li><li>Flucking out the extremities  (QS. 70:16) </li><li>It shall claim him who retreats and turns his back  (QS. 70:17)</li><li>And hoards then withholds. But they deny the Hour, and We have prepared a burning Fire for him who denies the Hour  (QS. 70:18)</li><li>When it sees them from a far-off place, they will hear its raging and roaring (QS. 25:12)</li></ul><span style="text-align: justify;"><br /></span><span style="text-align: justify;">And if We had made it a Quran in a foreign tongue, they would have said: Why have not its messages been made clear? What! a foreign (tongue) and an Arab! Say: It is to those who believe a guidance and a healing, and those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears and it is obscure to them. These are called to from a place afar. (QS. 41:44) </span><br /><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Allah the most Merciful the most Wise said in the Holy Quran about the Hour when Planet Nibiru which is Sijjeel/ Saqqar as we know it, as Hell itself, that it would come all of a sudden, as it's stated here:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">"They ask you about the Hour, when will it come to pass? Say: The knowledge thereof is with my Lord only. None but He will manifest it at its time. It is momentous in the heavens and the earth. It will not come to you but of a sudden. They ask you as if you are in control thereof. Say: Its knowledge is with Allah only, but most people know not." (QS. 7:187)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">The Orbit of Nibiru</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">In this ayah the city of Lot, 11:82" "............When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones made of baked clay (FROM SIJIL).(QS. 11:82)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The verse is also translated as  "made high low", or,  "we overthrew", so the town was not turned upside down but the order of the planets was turned upside down as planet sijil/saqar appeared from the North Pole and the order of the planets reversed. This was 4166 years and 8 months ago (1 Nibiru Year). The Next passing will be from the South Pole. This passing will be the 12th year of Nibiru. This is the 12th time ( FINAL PASSAGE ) the Planet Sijil passes making the total years 12 X 4166.66=50.000 years in line with the ayah:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">A questioner asked about a Torture to befall-</div><div style="text-align: justify;">The Unbelievers, the which of there is none to ward off,-</div><div style="text-align: justify;">(A Torture) from Allah, Lord of the Ways of Ascent.</div><div style="text-align: justify;">The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:</div><div style="text-align: justify;">Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience of beautiful (contentment).</div><div style="text-align: justify;">They see the (Day) indeed as a far-off (event):</div><div style="text-align: justify;">But We see it (quite) near.  (QS.70:1-7)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The verse continues as such ..</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The day when the sky will become as molten copper, And the hills become as flakes of wool, And no familiar friend will ask a question of his friend Though they will be given sight of them. The guilty man will long to be able to ransom himself from the punishment of that day at the price of his children And his spouse and his brother  And his kin that harbored him  And all that are in the earth, if then it might deliver him. But nay! for lo! it is the fire of hell Eager to roast; It calleth him who turned and fled (from truth), And hoarded (wealth) and withheld it. (QS. 70:8-18)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Nibiru will traverse around from the poles. Allah speaks of the Poles as its extremities, the furthest points,  borders,  outlaying  parts, sides,  depending on your translated version; also the mention of reducing it, of land and population.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And verily We sent messengers (to mankind) before thee, and We appointed for them wives and offspring, and it was not (given) to any messenger that he should bring a portent save by Allah's leave. For everything there is a time prescribed. Allah effaceth what He will, and establisheth (what He will), and with Him is the source of ordinance. Whether We let thee see something of that which We have promised them, or make thee die (before its happening), thine is but conveyance (of the message). Ours the reckoning. See they not how we visit the land, reducing it of its outlying parts? (When) Allah doometh there is none that can postpone His doom, and He is swift at reckoning. (QS. 13:38-41)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">Nibiru and the 7 Earths</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Without the discovery of the tenth planet Nibiru*, we would not of been able to understand surah 74, and others that make mention of Saqar, Nibiru.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Next to our earth there are seven Earths (Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and NOW Nibiru)  A predestined arrival. The scientists call it the tenth planet, in line with all the planets mentioned above, including Mercury and Venus. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">As you will see, Mercury and Venus are between the Sun and the Earth, and are therefore not considered Earth type planets. Allah states there are 7 Earths after our Earth, and with the arrival of Nibiru, we now see the seventh Earth. As our Earth is classed as the Center of the Universe, as stated in the Quran, and the Universe thus expands outwards from it, and that all the others Earths were taken out and created from our Mother Earth called the Realm of the Heavens and the Earth.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Thus did We show Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the earth that he might be of those possessing certainty: (QS. 6:75)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.  (QS. 65:12)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (QS.21:30)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And if all the trees in the earth were pens, and the sea, with seven more seas to help it, (were ink), the words of Allah could not be exhausted. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise. (QS.31:27)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The last verse QS 31; 27, is implying, that there are 7 Earths beyond our Earth, as implyed by the 7 seas, as we know well that the Earth is mostly made up of seas. The word more, underlined in the verses, is perhaps not enough to understand the verses, as in some translations, it says; seven seas beyond it to add to its supply.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Soon will I cast him into SAQAR</div><div style="text-align: justify;">And what will explain to thee what SAQAR is?</div><div style="text-align: justify;">Naught doth it permit to endure, and naught doth it leave alone!-</div><div style="text-align: justify;">Waving to man!  (QS.74 : 26-27)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The last Ayah proves it is not going to CRASH into Earth but PASS by it as it always has done before.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">Rising of the Sun from the West</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Planet Nibiru/Saqar/Sijil (tenth planet also called Planet X or the Purifyer) will cause the earth to rotate in the opposite direction, the sun will rise from the West, it will raise the temperature (Heat) of the sun in summer, Allah will declare war against all the ones who intend to extinguish Allah's Light;</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The attaining of these signs  started in the month Dhil Hija year 1427 Hijri (2007-2008). You must understand that this planet passed several times near the earth (Orbit) in the past in order to purify earth from evil man effectively in line with the ayah:</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Now I do call to witness the Lord of all points in the East and the West that We can certainly-Substitute them with better (men) than they; </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And We are not to be defeated (in Our Plan). (QS.70; 40)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">At its passage, the people in Mecca and Yemen will be able to see it in the evening of that day.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">The signs of Saqars (Nibiru)'s Arrival</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The sign of EDRAK, the Sun catching up with the Moon, because of Nibirus ever nearing the Sun. Allah states the order of things;</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness. And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf ( the phase of a New Moon). It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. (QS. 36:37-40)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Here Allah states that it is not for the Sun to catch up with the Moon. That is, until the signs of the Last Hour appear, and the night precedes the daytime, that is when the Moon follows the Sun.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him.  (QS. 91:1-2)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">One of the great signs is, that the Sun will rise from the West, and it will not happen until the night precedes the daytime. Astronomers will understand this, and could explain it better than us, but here goes the story; The Moon meets the Sun in the New Moon Phases (New Dark Moon), when the Sun and the Moon forma straight angle, alignment of Moon, Sun and Earth. The New Moon is followed by the birth of the waxing crescent as the Moon moves slightly to the East which makes the Sun follow it from the West. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The Sun appears higher than the Moon, but the Moon is ahead of the Sun towards the East because the Moon moves faster.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The phases of the Moon  start the minute the waxing crescent is born right after the New Moon phases has passed.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The New Moon is the position of the Moon before waxing crescent phases start, when the Moon is Dark reflecting nothing of the Sun rays. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The the Moon moves slightly towards the East and the first minutes of the waxing crescent of the New Month comes, then a new phase, till the Moon is opposite the Sun, when the Full Moon appears in the East while the Sun is in the West (at Sunset). The the Moon comes back to the old New Moon phases which is the position of the Moon before any waxing crescents.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">How the Sun catches up with the Moon</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">This happens when the Moon sets ( disappears in the West) before the Sunset in spite of the birth of the waxing crescent of the New Month !. All the astronomers ibn the world will find out that the Moonset is before the Sunset, although their precise calculations show that the waxing cresent of the New Moon was born. And none of them will be able to explain this phenomenona until they believe that the Sun caught up with the Moon, which caused the waxing crescent to be born before the eclipse, which means that the Sun, the Moon and the Earth were in approximate alignment while the Moon was a waxing crescent ( not a Dark New Moon).</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">So when the night precedes the daytime, nothing will save those in disbelief.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Wait they, indeed, for nothing less than that the angels should come unto them, or thy Lord should come, or there should come one of the portents from thy Lord? In the day when one of the portents from thy Lord cometh, its belief availeth naught a soul which theretofore believed not, nor in its belief earned good (by works). Say: Wait ye! Lo! We (too) are waiting. (QS. 6:158)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">The Overflowing Seas</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"> By the Mount, And a Scripture inscribed On fine parchment unrolled, And the House frequented, And the roof exalted, And the sea kept filled, Lo! the doom of thy Lord will surely come to pass; There is none that can ward it off. On the day when the heaven will heave with (awful) heaving, And the mountains move away with (awful) movement, Then woe that day unto the deniers  Who play in talk of grave matters;  The day when they are thrust with a (disdainful) thrust, into the fire of hell  (And it is said unto them): This is the Fire which ye were wont to deny.  Is this magic, or do ye not see?  (QS. 52:1-15)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">This verse again has a few different translations, as in the mentioned Sea underlined; the over flowing sea,  or the Sea filled with fire. The filling of over flowing of the seas is a sgn of the bad deeds of mankind, who lay corruption in the Earth.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Corruption doth appear on land and sea because of (the evil) which men's hands have done, that He may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return. (QS. 30:41)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">This is a minor torment before the coming of Nibiru, which when it appears there will be signs of pieces of the sky falling!</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And if they were to see a fragment of the heaven falling, they would say: A heap of clouds. Then let them be (O Muhammad), till they meet their day, in which they will be thunder-stricken, A day in which their guile will naught avail them, nor will they be helped. And verily, for those who do wrong, there is a punishment beyond that. But most of them know not.  (QS. 52:44-47)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And Allah brings a minor torment, chastisement before the major chastisement.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And verily We make them taste the lower punishment before the greater, that haply they may return.  (QS. 32:21)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Now, the verse below is a timing in when to expect the overflowing sea to occur;</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">By the Dawn  And ten nights,  And the Even (SHAFA is a prayer of two RAKAT, BOW DOWN, symbolising the 11th and 12th nights), and the Odd (WATR ... meaning ... ONE BOW DOWN, refers to the 13th of the Lunar Month),  And the night when it departeth, (refers to the 14th of the Lunar Month) There surely is an oath for thinking man. Dost thou not consider how thy Lord dealt with (the tribe of) A'ad,With many-columned Iram,The like of which was not created in the lands; And with (the tribe of) Thamud, who clove the rocks in the valley; And with Pharaoh, firm of might,  Who (all) were rebellious (to Allah) in these lands, And multiplied iniquity therein? Therefore thy Lord poured on them the disaster of His punishment. Lo! thy Lord is ever watchful. (QS. 89:1-14)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">This verse is obviously talking about the Month of Ramadam and a Lunar Eclipse. which follows after the night precedes the day. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Nay, by the Moon And the night when it withdraweth And the dawn when it shineth forth, Lo! this is one of the greatest (portents) As a warning unto men, Unto him of you who will advance or hang back. (QS. 74:32-37)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">Nibirus sudden Appearence</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And when those who disbelieve behold thee, they but choose thee out for mockery, (saying): Is this he who maketh mention of your gods? And they would deny all mention of the Beneficent. (36) Man is made of haste. I shall show you My portents, but ask Me not to hasten. (37) And they say: When will this promise (be fulfilled), if ye are truthful? (38) If those who disbelieved but knew the time when they will not be able to drive off the fire from their faces and from their backs, and they will not be helped! (39) Nay, but it will come upon them unawares so that it will stupefy them, and they will be unable to repel it, neither will they be reprieved. (40) Messengers before thee, indeed, were mocked, but that whereat they mocked surrounded those who scoffed at them.  (QS. 21: 36-42)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And they say: When will this promise be fulfilled, if ye are truthful? (48) Say: I have no power to hurt or benefit myself, save that which Allah willeth. For every nation there is an appointed time. When their time cometh, then they cannot put it off an hour, nor hasten (it). (49) Say: Have ye thought: When His doom cometh unto you as a raid by night, or in the (busy) day; what is there of it that the guilty ones desire to hasten?  (QS.10: 48-50)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Say (O Muhammad): Yours is the promise of a Day which ye cannot postpone nor hasten by an hour.  (QS. 34:30)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">When Nibiru comes in view of the Earth, from behind the Sun, all of a sudden a white cloud of smoke will come down.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">But watch thou (O Muhammad) for the day when the sky will produce visible smoke That will envelop the people. This will be a painful torment. (Then they will say): Our Lord relieve us of the torment. Lo! we are believers.  (QS. 44: 10-12)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">What will Nibiru look like</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Nibiru, Saqar will look like it has holes in it, whereby piercing brightness shines out from them. As we know, this planet is Hell itself. And Hell, Saqar has seven gates, assigned for various type of disbelievers. There are three gates to one side and three to the other side, and the center gate is reserved for the hypocrites. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">By the heaven and the Morning Star - Ah, what will tell thee what the Morning Star is! - The piercing Star!  (QS. 86: 1-2)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">This verse above is from At Tariq, the Night Comer, or as its real translation is the one who knocks at the door.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Lord of the heavens and of the earth and all that is between them, and Lord of the sun's risings. Lo! We have adorned the lowest heaven with an ornament, the planets;  With security from every froward devil. They cannot listen to the Highest Chiefs for they are pelted from every side, Outcast, and theirs is a perpetual torment; Save him who snatcheth a fragment, and there pursueth him a burning flame, piercing in brightness. (QS. 37:5-10)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><b>Nibiru looks like it has wings or that of a cloak over its shoulders.</b></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">O thou enveloped in thy cloak, Arise and warn! Thy Lord magnify, Thy raiment purify, Pollution shun! (And show not favour, seeking wordly gain! For the sake of thy Lord, be patient!  For when the trumpet shall sound, Surely that day will be a day of anguish, (QS. 74: 1-9)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">The sound Nibiru will make</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And they say: When will this promise be fulfilled, if ye are truthful? (48) They await but one Shout (Nibiru approaching with a knocking sound/explosion), which will surprise them while they are disputing. (QS. 36: 48-49)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">When it sees them from a far-off place, they will hear its raging and roaring. (QS. 25:12)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">The Past Towns of Destruction</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"> "Then We save Our messengers and those who believe — even so (now); it is binding on Us to save the believers." (QS. 10:103) </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Why were there not then among the generations before you those possessing understanding, forbidding mischief in the earth, except a few among them whom We saved? And the unjust pursued the enjoyment of plenty, and they were guilty." (QS. 11:116) </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And when Our commandment came to pass, We delivered Hud and those who believed with him with mercy from Us; and We saved them from a hard chastisement." (QS. 11: 58)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">So when Our commandment came to pass, We saved Salih and those who believed with him by mercy from Us from the disgrace of that day. Surely thy Lord — He is the Strong, the Mighty." (QS. 11: 66) </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"> And when Our decree came to pass, We saved Shu‘aib and those who believed with him by mercy from Us. And the cry overtook those who were iniquitous, so they were motionless bodies in their abodes" (QS. 11: 94)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">There were many towns and cities destroyed as mentioned, by Allah in the Quran. And Allah made mention of a few of them in surah 7, the level of destruction varied and some were ultimately destroyed by Nibiru (Saqar), Sijjil.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones made of baked clay (FROM SIJIL). (QS. 11:82)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Striking them with stones of baked clay (FROM SIJIL). The Elephant</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">The Destruction to come</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">When the event befalleth - There is no denying that it will befall - Abasing (some), exalting (others); When the earth is shaken with a shock And the hills are ground to powder So that they become a scattered dust.  QS. 56:1-6 is the event</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The Reality!  </div><div style="text-align: justify;">What is the Reality?  Ah, what will convey unto thee what the reality is! (QS. 69: 1-3)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Lo! when the waters rose, We carried you upon the ship  That We might make it a memorial for you, and that remembering ears (that heard the story) might remember.  And when the trumpet shall sound one blast  And the earth with the mountains shall be lifted up and crushed with one crash, Then, on that day will the Event befall.  And the heaven will split asunder, for that day it will be frail. (QS. 69:11-16)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The Calamity!  </div><div style="text-align: justify;">What is the Calamity? Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Calamity is! A day wherein mankind will be as thickly-scattered moths  And the mountains will become as carded wool. Then, as for him whose scales are heavy (with good works), He will live a pleasant life.  But as for him whose scales are light, The bereft and Hungry One will be his mother, Ah, what will convey unto thee what she is! - Raging Fire. (QS. 101:1-11)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Nay, but the Hour (of doom) is their appointed tryst, and the Hour will be more wretched and more bitter (than their earthly failure). Lo! the guilty are in error and madness.  On the day when they are dragged into the Fire upon their faces (it is said unto them): Feel the touch of hell. (QS. 54: 46-48) </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And brought [within view], that Day, is Hell - that Day, man will remember, but what good to him will be the remembrance? (QS. 89:23)</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">There are many surahs in the Quran that deal with Saqar, even whole surahs just about Saqar. What we have to realise here with these events of Saqar and it being Hell, coming in view of Earth, and people being sent their, that this does not detract away from Judgement Day. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Rather we must realize this; that when we die we go straight to Hell of Paradise. </div><div style="text-align: justify;">There is no hanging around in the grave, or torture in the grave. The Quran makes this quite clear. Then when Judgement Day comes, we are handed our books of life and thus sent back to Hell of Heaven again.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">There is a reason for this, AND ALLAH KNOWS BEST!</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Now, back to the topic,<br /><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: large;">What does Quran mean by SEVEN EARTHS?</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Meaning of the verse “It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof”</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">What is the meaning of the verse at the end of Soorat at-Talaaq (interpretation of the meaning): “It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds (comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge.” [at-Talaaq 65:12]?</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Praise be to Allah.</div><div style="text-align: justify;">Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">“It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds (comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge.”</div><div style="text-align: justify;">[at-Talaaq 65:12]. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">In this verse Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, tells us that He created seven heavens and seven earths, between which His command descends; this refers to His laws and commandments, and His decrees by which all things are controlled and His signs are made clear, so that His slaves may know that to Him belong the creation and the command, and that He has the utmost wisdom and perfect might; to Him belong the most beautiful names and sublime attributes; not even the weight of an atom (or small ant), in the highest heaven or the lowest earth, is beyond His power and knowledge; and so that they may know that He is able to bring people back to life after they have died, and raise them up and resurrect them from their graves, so that they will love Him and worship Him, and they will be obedient to Him and to His Messengers. This is the purpose for which He created mankind. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said: </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Allah, may He be exalted, tells us of His perfect might and absolute power, so that this will motivate us to venerate the true religion that He has ordained. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">“It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven).”</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[at-Talaaq 65:12].</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">End quote from Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/156 </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Ash-Shawkaani (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “and of the earth the like thereof” means, and He created the earth something like them, i.e., seven. There was a difference of opinion concerning the nature of the levels of the earth. Al-Qurtubi said in his Tafseer: They (the scholars) differed concerning them, and there are two opinions. One of them, which is the view of the majority, is that there are seven earths in layers, one above another, and between each two earths there is a distance like that between heaven and earth. Ad-Dahhaak said: They are in layers, one above another, with no gap in between, unlike the heavens. But the former view is more correct, because the reports indicate that.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">End quote from Fath al-Qadeer, 5/346 </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">As-Sa‘di (may Allah have mercy on him) said: </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">Allah, may He be exalted, tells us that He created all of creation, including the seven heavens and all that dwell therein, and the seven earths and all that dwell therein, and whatever is between them, and that He sent down His command, which is the laws and religious rulings that He revealed to His Messengers to remind and exhort His slaves, and His decrees by means of which he controls all of creation. All of that is so that His slaves will know Him and will understand that His power encompasses all things and His Knowledge encompasses all things. Then they will know Him by His holy attributes and beautiful names, and they will worship Him, love Him and fulfil their duties towards Him. This is the purpose behind creation and the command: to know Allah and worship Him. Those of the righteous slaves of Allah who were guided understood this and acted accordingly, but those who wronged themselves turned away from that.</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">End quote from Tafseer as-Sa‘di, p. 872 </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">At-Tabaraani narrated in al-Mu‘jam al-Kabeer (8987) with a hasan isnaad from Ibn Mas‘ood that he said: The distance between the lowest heaven and the next one is the distance of five hundred years’ travel, and the distance between each heaven and the next is the distance of five hundred years’ travel. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">So the heavens are seven, and the earths are seven, and that is by the perfect might of Allah, may He be exalted, and the command and decree of Allah descend between them. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">What is required of us is to adhere to what is known from sharee‘ah, and not overstep the mark. The Qur’an and the saheeh Sunnah have told us that there are seven heavens and seven earths. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">We know from the Sunnah that each heaven has its inhabitants, but there is nothing that tells us about the earths other than the one in which we live. So what we must do is adhere to what the reports say, and believe that there are seven earths, without seeking to know further, or to find out whether this is proven by modern science or not, or other things that may generate doubt and uncertainty. Rather we must believe that complete knowledge and power over these higher and lower realms belongs to Allah alone. This is part of knowing that He has power over all things, and that He encompasses all things in His knowledge. Nevertheless, we say: We hear, we obey and we believe. </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">See also the answer to question no. <a href="https://islamqa.info/en/112059" target="_blank">112059</a> </div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">And Allah knows best!</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;">[Source: <a href="http://www.answering-christianity.com/" target="_blank">Answering Christianity</a> | Islam Question & Answer]</div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><br /></div>

What Does Quran Mean By Seven Earth?

THE CASE ''It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you ma...

What Does Quran Mean By Seven Earth?

THE CASE ''It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you ma...

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